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I recently addressed a thread on our discussion boards where a member
reported on a couple of women who seemed to initially like him, and
then backed off in a big way, telling him things like, “I’m just not
looking for this right now.”
He’d suspected the issue was he just wasn’t doing all that well at targeting women who were going to be receptive to him, but in this case, the actual issue was he was jumping the gun and expressing too much interest without her giving him a reason to yet.
And what happened next was the girl started feeling like something
was “off”.
As soon as that feeling comes up, you’re in bad shape.
And it isn’t always caused by missing a step here or there, either.
Comments
Two questions on looks and eye contact
Hi Chase, posted this in the hair length article but didn't seem to get a reply. I guess I'll post it here again.
I have very boyish look (being Asian), tall and lanky and can easily pass for a teenager even though I am already 30 years old. Problem is, I have very high forehead and for years I've been styling medium length hairstyle with fringe to cover my forehead (think some Asian popstar) and this makes me look more like some teen idol than a masculine man. Short hair or shaved head only makes me look even younger as I don't have the masculine facial features, and I can't grow beard either.
However, I'm also very dominant and sexual when interacting with girls, lots of chase and sexual frames and have been a loud, confident guy for a long time. I have no problem holding strong eye contact with very attractive women (who almost always look older than me) or saying very polarizing things with girls (I'm not that needy so never afraid of losing girls) if only to see their reactions. I guess for these reasons I can still attract very hot girls in my social circle, though when on the streets/mall there aren't many women who check me out.
My first question is, considering my boyish appearance and a rather opposite personality, how should I run/improve my game? I'm already 30 so most women my age look much older than I am, and I'm not interested in teenage girls anymore.
Second question is, I have recently improved my fashion and went for an edgier look (leather jacket + tee) as I am also a musician myself and that's the rocker look that I'm sporting currently. However, I noticed that I get almost ZERO looks from girls while walking on the street/mall (except for some really young teenage girls). Even with my previous casual clothing plus bad hair days, I still get some girls to check me out or hold eye contact with me (note I only check out the cute/hot girls, others I don't really notice). Now, they don't even reciprocate my eye contact and as far as I can tell, not even checking me out when I'm not actively trying to hold eye contact with them (so far only one girl literally eye fucked me). Usually when I made eye contact with a girl and give her a sly smile/smirk, the interested ones will usually check me out a bit later, but now I don't even get any of these. What could be the problem here??
Would love to hear your comments on my situation.
Re: Two questions on looks and eye contact
Anon-
Check out my response here:
Hair & Leather
Chase
Good for Younger Chicks
Women are attracted to men who are (and look) more of a man than they are. Not too much more, just more. And if you look boyish yet a little edgy, then you'll be mostly attractive to teenage girls because you won't be looking masculine enough for the older ones. So I'd say go for them! I'm sure you can find some hot 18-year-old* you can hit it off with, especially given your personality. This curse of yours could turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Good luck.
------------------
*Or 17, or whatever, depending on age of consent in your jurisdiction
Low-energy testing, well-spoken
Long time no see! I've been busy getting quite a few new exciting experiences with women. ;) So thank you for everything!
How do you test/screen or move things forward when you're feeling low-energy? Sometimes I'm walking with the girl and just don't feel like talking for a long time, and my mind is kind of empty, and then it gets kind of awkward to try to test/screen or touch her out of nowhere. So then I have trouble gauging whether to move things forward, and things are so quiet (not a high point) that moving seems like it won't work, anyway. Any tips?
Side question: how do you become well-spoken on current issues? I read about them and know some things, but other people seem to be much faster and better at forming thought-out opinions and making interesting connections.
M
Re: Low-energy testing, well-spoken
Howdy, M!
Screening/touch/moving forward low energy is just down to having your process down cold, like anything you do when you’re not feeling it. Working out at the gym, playing a sport/game, taking a test. You won’t be walking on water, but sometimes that can even make it work better – if the girl likes you and you’ve got that “I’m only kind of into it” vibe, that’s enough to make some girls chase you harder, want you more, and pick up the slack.
The other alternative is really going for the “Eh, I couldn’t care either way” vibe and seeing if the girl will progress things forward on her own. This works better the better your fundamentals are, and the more experienced you are… less experienced guys will stay this way up to a certain point, and then they’ll “wake up” and try to take charge, and the switch seems incongruent and can throw things off. I wouldn’t really recommend this until you’re advanced, unless you just want to play around with an experimental approach and don’t mind losing the girl if it doesn’t work out.
Re: well-spoken, do you ever rehearse in your spare time? I notice if there’s an issue I have an opinion about, I’ll catch myself rehearsing a conversation with some made-up interlocutor when daydreaming. As I understand it, many guys who are pretty well-spoken do this; if an issue catches your fancy, you basically take your discussions on the finer points of it through a dry run, and then when you end up discussing that issue for real you’ve already run through it a few times in “practice”. You’ll be better at new connections on the fly too, since you aren’t trying to string a basic argument together by the seat of your pants and instead are drawing on one you’ve already gone over, freeing up mental resources for higher order activities (like connection-forming).
Chase
Thanks!
Thanks, Chase! That makes sense. I don't rehearse arguments about issues much, so I think that will help.
M
Hey
Hey Chase nice article....little confusing though...I will read it over again.
Hey chase I was wondering what did you think of Floyd Mayweather Jr? I have grown obsessed with him from what he has accomplished like being successful and the richest athlete. What really sticks out is how he achieved so much money by being the bad guy
I was wondering myself could I imitate what he's doing myself?
Do you watch him yourself? Are you impressed by what he's done? Are you surprised how much money he gets for being the bad guy? What all can you learn from a guy like him?
Be careful
Depends on what you're looking for.
Success with women? I'd steer clear of emulating Mayweather given he's been convicted of and jailed for assaulting women.
Money? You can take some lessons from what he's done in terms of brand management and monopolising a supposed competitive market. His 48-0 record is key to his brand and he's gone to extraordinary lengths to protect it throughout his career: namely dodging the most qualified opponent at any given time in favour of lesser fighters, only to take on those more qualified opponents once they're passed their peak and in need of a payday. How do you does he do this? Get a manager that controls close to all in boxing (and is being sued by Jay-Z and others for his non-competitive behaviour).
So you'll be able to replicate Mayweather's feats of achieving above average wealth if you're able to develop a market for your services and charge monopoly prices.
Be careful idolising a man like this - what does it say about a man's character if he hits women? He's certainly not the lover. He's not in the friendzone, he's not a provider and he's not even the creepy guy. He's a violent criminal.
It also sounds like you're putting a lot of emphasis on money as a life-goal and a means to happiness. I used to be an investment banker earning a small fortune and I can tell you I'm far happier now earning less and indulging my passions. You'd be well advised to do some reading on the lack of correlation between money and happiness. I fully appreciate that a base-level of financial independence is required for a happy life, but if all you want to do is make money, that's a one-way track to disappointment because you'll never have enough.
Mayweather
Gennady-
I’ll have to beg off here, unfortunately – all I know of the guy is his name, that he’s a boxer, he’s won some championships or is a title-holder (and I think is undefeated), and has a lot of braggadocio / people love to hate him.
Haven’t watched any video of him so I can’t comment personally, but AusGuy sounds like he has a good handle on him so I’d listen to him.
Re: making money, I know a handful of self-made multimillionaires, some of whom I’d consider made their fortunes being “good guys” and some more or less as “bad guys”. You see this everywhere – in American football, which I am (or have been in the past… haven’t watched it really since 2007 or 2008), Terrell Owens was a terrific, high-achieving, highly-paid wide receiver, yet a loudmouthed asshole everybody ended up hating. On the other hand, Jerry Rice was a terrific, high-achieving, highly-paid wide receiver, and everybody loved him and he was a heck of a guy. In their cases, it worked out better for Rice, who set a number of career records and netted 3 Super Bowl championships, than it did for Owen, who despite his talent became persona non grata in too many places and never did get his ring.
Chase
Standing up for yourself
Hey Chase, I'm the guy whow asked about an article for standing up for yourself.
I just wanted to give more detail on the fears I have and how I can fight them so I can stand up for myself, and you can showe us the solutions on how to beat them.
I fear of what I don't know what my opponent is capable of?
What if he knows fighting arts? Then that makes me not want to stand up for myself.
What if I lose and get embarrassed?
How do I not have fear and stand up for myself when I am threatened?
How can I stop worrying if they will try to get me back if I stand up for myself?
How do I stop fearing about people I stand up to, getting other people to cause me harm?
All of these thoughts make it hard for me to stand up for my self Chase.
I appreciate the article.
Re: Standing up for yourself
Noted, Anon. I've added this to my notes!
Chase
Foreign Women/Western Women
Hey Chase
Are you living in asia because of the low cost of living and because the women are more approachable and feminine? Or is there some other stand out reason? How would you compare the quality of life in america (based on what matters,things like women,cost of living,etc,)vrs the quality of life in asia and some other foriegn countries?
In the madonna/whore article you argue that a LTR with a western woman is likely to end badly especially after the 2 year drop. But if all women in the west have the ability to be whores at some point or another, then why make a distinction between dating party girls(who supposedly are bad for long term relationships) and regular girls,when in the end they all have the ability to cheat. Or are you making the distinction between party girls and regular girls because regular girls are just more pleasent to be around temporarily, and less likely to cause drama.Aside from cheating,which you say is likely to happen anyway with anykind of girl in the west.
Re: Foreign Women/Western Women
Anon-
I like Asia because it’s exotic (or was, when I was new to it). It was either there or South America when I left the States, and the decision was made for me when I had several people tell me about the crime level in Columbia and other friends extend me invites to stay with them as long as I wanted in Asia, which made for an easy transition.
I travel a fair bit but don’t change home bases too often because there’s always a big adjustment period in which your productivity takes a big hit, and right now keeping my productivity up is the most important item for me personally, at least until I get business to where I want it. If I was changing home bases right now it’d probably be to Eastern Europe, which is now more “exotic” to me than Asia (since I’ve spent a fair bit of time in Asia over the past few years).
Quality of life in the non-North American places I like and have lived or would live in (East Asia, Eastern Europe, Southern Europe) I’d say is largely comparable, but requires some adjusting. e.g., when I’m in places where English is widely spoken it feels like having a superpower, because now I can communicate complex thoughts to people instead of being limited to hand gestures / dramatic facial expressions / simple phrases. Some places are far more convenient and modern than anywhere in the States (Tokyo, Osaka, Singapore) while others will just drive you crazy (Ulaanbaatar, Manila, non-tier 1 cities in Asia and Eastern Europe). Many cities are comparable and quite pleasant (Florence, Milan, Nice, Istanbul, Zhuhai, Seoul).
You get an attractiveness and exoticness boost in Eastern Europe, South America, and Asia as a North American, so that’s definitely nice woman-wise. Another factor is the much higher proportion of slim women – what’s “average” in America is fat in these places, and what’s “average” in these places is “unrealistic beauty standards” in America. As a result, you have a much larger pool of attractive women to draw from, which reduces how heavily men are competing for women and makes women more approachable both to locals and to foreigners. There’s a reason why American women go to Western Europe, while American men go to Eastern Europe, Asia, or South America (each sex finds better mating opportunities in these areas respectively).
More on some of this here, if you haven’t seen it:
How and Where to Move Overseas as a Single Man
Re: cheating, I never said it’s “likely” to happen with women in the West. The numbers on women’s odds of infidelity are all over the place, from something like 9% to 40%, depending on the study, and depending on if you’re talking about just marriage or all committed relationships period (obviously, will be higher if you include boyfriends in there she might have strayed from vs. only if she’s strayed from a husband). Some of the primary factors are partner count, educational attainment, and lifestyle.
Re: party girls, well, think about it like this: one girl swims in a shark tank with a hunk of bloody meat strapped around her stomach a couple times a week. Another girl goes swimming by the seashore a few times a year. Which girl’s more likely to get a limb bitten off? Either of them could get eaten by a shark… but one of them’s substantially more likely to. My primary reasons for avoiding the women who are sharkbait I laid out in the article on it: “Why I Quit Dating Girls Who Club, Party, or Drink.”
Chase
American Women Hotter Commodity in Western Europe?
This is an interesting remark. Why would American women find better mating opportunities in Western Europe than in Eastern Europe?
Just Gets it!
Hi Chase,
Kudos! Another marvelous article!
There's something puzzling in your "Just gets it" article. The idea you say is to not be "looking" so we aren't judging. That's when women open up to us and show their genuine self.
1. However, if we were to screen and qualify women, aren't we also saying we have certain standards, which translates as "we are looking"
2. When we challenge women such as verbally by teasing them, aren't we communicating that we have something in mind? The dilemma is we have to challenge a woman. How do we challenge women but also show "we get it"?
3. This point is from another article.
"Downplay your Interest"
How do we downplay her interest but also use chase framing and sexual framing?
Because chase framing and sexual framing is framing that she's highly interesting, hence chasing.
Side note: Do we ever point out that a girl is trying hard to get us?
"You're trying so hard to pacify me, it's cute!"
Thank you once again for being such a great influence to me and millions of others!
Your devoted reader,
Lawliet
Reference:
1.
http://www.girlschase.com/content/qualifying-women-really-important
http://www.girlschase.com/content/qualifying-women-really-important
3.
http://www.girlschase.com/content/downplay-her-interest-and-really-make-...
Wrong Link for 2.
2.
http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-qualify-girl-and-ramp-attraction
Looking, Downplaying Her Interest
Lawliet-
I may have worded that confusingly.
I definitely suggest continuing to “look”, choose which women you’ll talk to, and screen and qualify. The aim is to realize that just because a woman isn’t ready now, doesn’t mean she won’t be 5 minutes from now, or 30 minutes from now, or tomorrow. The real trick is being able to tell who’s who more reliably. You’re much better off showing a little interest and making it clear you find her attractive, 99% of the time.
Re: downplaying interest vs. chase framing, it’s down to awareness of where you stand with a girl.
For instance, when she’s giving you her phone number, that’s an act of investment, and it’s also often a slightly awkward situation for her (giving you her phone number is a clear statement of intent on her part). In this case, usually you’ll defuse tension by making it no big deal: “I’ll drop you a line sometime.” If you chase frame here it’s often going to be too much: “You’re not going to start sexting me while I’m at work or anything, are you?” HOWEVER… if the girl is super into you and eating everything you say up, then in that case you’d be fine chase framing her. Awareness + calibration.
Basically, to chase frame, the girl needs to already be pretty comfortable with you, and she needs to trust that you are not going to awkwardly tear down her value either to one-up her or because you’re socially all-thumbs (like many men are). Usually this comes a little later in the conversation, whereas when it’s still early on you’ll typically be better served downplaying her interest and then letting her be the one to express more if she so chooses.
Chase
Re: Inexperienced Girls?
Hi Chase!
Thanks for your answer.
Basically, you mean we show interest but also not holding ideals of a "good girl".
Only then can we be nonjudgmental with women's sexuality and they can feeling comfortable knowing we like them too and show us that hidden side .
I gave it a try. but it doesn't seem to work on inexperienced girls who feel uncomfortable immediately when sex is the topic.
Since we are trying to express how we see all women are sexual, what can we do?
Sexual frames
Sex talk
Sex stories
Sexual prizing
Chase frame (PG 13?)
Awesome stuff! Thanks again!
Lawliet
Great article as always
Great article as always Chase.
Sorry for going a little off topic but I have a few short questions.
You mentioned like a year ago that you are working on or thinking about working on a new product that will encompass all the new and old material from this site. I was wondering how is that coming along if at all? How big and detailed is it going to be? Is it going to be an ebook or something else? When will I be able to buy it?
I am not interested in tinder and stuff like that but I would love to have info from this site in a single easy to use but extensive product.
Thanks :)
Upcoming Product
AnonDude-
It is – we’re making steady progress on it. I think we’ve largely settled on the angle we want to take with it and we’re assembling the interview question list and then whittling it down (it’ll be done interview style, me and an interview, about 30 to 40 hours of video all told), while I build the marketing materials.
I’d hoped we’d start shooting this month but it’s taking longer than anticipated and I have a lot of travel coming up soon that’ll keep me on the road / in the air until sometime in November, so we probably won’t begin recording until November timeframe, and then we still need to build the site for it to deliver videos on and have a video editor clean everything up. I’m designing it as a 10-month course at this point so we should be able to get it up in stages, with the first month’s content up hopefully not too long after we start shooting.
There’ll be ebooks in addition to the videos – both transcripts of the interviews, and summary ebooks for each video module for quick skimming / review. Subject matter will cover 85% to 90% of the stuff I’ve talked about on GC already, with 10% to 15% new (so about 3 to 6 hours of totally new concepts and tech I haven’t publicly discussed). There’s a list on some of what’s likely to be included here:
http://www.girlschase.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11014#p54471
So, yeah – if you want extensive, this ought to do it! Much of the reason this one’s taking so long is I want to cover the whole gamut with it, but I want it to be laid out naturally to make it easy to go through and have each module build on the next, like what I did with HTMGC. That’s taking a lot of organizing to do, but if you want to make something that’s dense-yet-accessible it requires a fair bit of planning and mapping to do.
Chase
That is exactly what I was
That is exactly what I was hoping for. Can't wait to get my hands on that.
Thanks Chase.
girls know this
Was speaking to my sister last night and she was telling of a guy who went super fast that she had to let him know she didn't want anything. (Dude got her a box of chocolates on their first date)=
Although I gave him perks on his hairdo and watch, based on her description of what made her initiate conversation with him, he must have read her wrong and decided to move fast with her. Only thing is, she was really just making conversation, hence the disconnect.
am so glad you posted this up. If it wasn't too late I would send the link to the dude. Maybe it isn't!
Thanks.
Chocolates First Date
Anon-
Funny thing is, “fast” can be relative to what role the girl sees the guy in, too.
e.g., the guy who’s a sexy throwaway type, maybe she’s down to go to bed on Date #1 if he does it all right, no sweat.
Yet, buy her a box of chocolates on Date #1, and at once you’ve communicated your desire to court her like it’s 1892, and plunked yourself right onto the husband track… which means she needs to move at glacial speed with you and make sure you tick ALL the boxes for what she’s looking for in a Mr. Right.
Don’t think there are too many guys here who’ll be buying girls chocolates on Date #1, but just in case – be wary of which “track” you put yourself on, as “too fast for her” directed at one guy may well be “just right for her” when coming from another guy:
How to Get Girls: The Last Post You'll Ever Need
Chase
investment calliberation
Thanks for being prudent in your reply to let those who still move fast like the 1800s (myself EXcluded), know that they can still have a chance. Really! Such a cool way to put the reply.
I wonder how fast is too fast for seeking investments from a lady. Or how much investment is too much. Is she to be the judge of this or myself who is seeking the investing? For instance, if I ask a girl out who lives miles away from my city, inviting her to spend a few days on the road to come meet me. How would that seem and would she be galsy enough to take the trip?
Relevant in hindsight!
Hey guys,
Was going to search for something along the lines of this article. Guilty of number #1 with a girl I only had a few minutes of interaction with in a break in a uni lecture. Got her number and tried setting up a date but no response. Before seeing this article I realised I hadn't laid enough groundwork because I was rushing the interaction... Should have slowed down and seen if she was available for a coffee after class and got a slight amount of comfor/ rapport going and then tried setting a date from there or after via text. Lesson learned! Now just figuring on how to recover if at all possible. Guess we'll see :)
Cheers
Is it different escalating at her place?
Hey Chase,
Is escalating at her place any different than at mine?
I met a girl for a first date at a quit bar last Saturday evening and casually asked her midway through the date to go back to her place so she could 'show" me the sunroom she mentioned she had in her apartment. She said sure and we continued the conversation as if nothing happened. We left for her apartment about 1.5 hours into our date and she seemed into me. I was giving her slight touches, teasing her (but not overdoing it), and deepdiving into her darkest secrets. Once we got to her place, five or so minutes in I kissed her when she was showing me the sunroom. She kissed back but ended it after 5 or 10 seconds. I continued conversation like nothing happened, and tried again, but again she wasn't really into it. Later we were sitting on her couch, I tried a third time, and she "hinted" that I exit and get rest at my own apartment (I had a 5k the next morning).
I tried to persist kissing her, but I don't think it mattered. I'm confused since she let me into her place. Have you encountered this before?
Thanks,
Tim
Re: Is it different escalating at her place?
Tim-
That kind of thing will happen at your place too, e.g., the girl you bring back, show her around a bit, kiss her once or twice, and she says well, anyway, I’m not feeling it, I guess I’d better go.
It’s more the lack of arousal than anything else.
This is remedied by better fundamentals, priming her more, more sexual innuendo, and more touch. Also by getting better at getting women comfortable alone with you.
Happens less as you get more experienced, but never totally goes away unless you become conservative about which girls you go home with. If you’re still having it happen sometimes, that’s a fairly good sign you’re pushing the envelope and getting girls alone even if they aren’t totally into you (of course, if it’s happening ALL the time it just means you’ve got some work to do, but it doesn’t sound like that’s what’s happening).
Chase
what if a guy doesnt have passion or talent.
This is one thing I never found a solution for and nobody a single article is written about. I have an EXTREMELY difficult time with women. Infact I am nearly a virgin and I am not a very young man. And, I wonder why nobody talks about this. What if a guy is not just talented or has a passion in life. Is he doomed. Cant he find way with girls. I realise that I am that kind of guy. I just dont have talent or passion something that is very valuable to women.
I mean I have a life I have done things. Dance, skydiving, travelling etc. I just dont have a life project like most guys. I even dont put muscle on easily. Just one of those naturally skinny guys. I wish for cryingout loud, THat I find a single article that targets about this subject in this community. What does guys without passion or talent can do. Are they doomed???.
You are looking for the wrong article
You are looking at this all backwards.
How can you expect women to like you if u don't like yourself?
I can promise you that IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to be really successful in anything in
life if you have this kind of opinion about yourself. Even if you
achieve something big it will not fill that hole. That is why your achievements
"dance,travelling..." don't feel like much. It's like trying to build a roof without
walls to support it. First fix your belief about yourself then all other things like
passion, life goals or even hidden talents will follow. I promise you.
You are doomed only if you BELIEVE you are doomed. It's all
about your perspective about you, about world, about women.
Changing perspectives about women is the whole point of
this site if I am not mistaken...
First of all thanks.
Hey man,
You do hit it right. I don't like myself too much I won't lie. And you are right about what you say. Problem is that came to me as a matter of negative experiences. One of it is that I really I am not talented or passionate or have a life project. That is one of the reasons.
Second, I want to have some advice what can guys like me do if they don't' have passions or talents? and some other reasons behind that.
Now I will go to a doctor and get professional help but for now I wish somebody in this industry address such issues. What can guys like me do?
Thanks again and you are right in every word you said.
Man if my writing skills were
Man if my writing skills were better I could easily write an entire article just about helping people in your situation.
I will try to give you the gist of it here:
You are what you believe and belief is just a collection of thoughts you chronically think.
For example "I have no passions or talents". I bet that a day doesn't pass by without you thinking about that. For whatever reason (parents, friends, media, life experiences....) it has become your belief. Now it influences your actions, the way people react to you and most importantly the way you see the world. Even if you had a thousand hidden talents you will not be able to see them because you are not even looking for them. You BELIEVE you have no talent so you can't see it.
Here is the good news. If you can change what you think throughout the day it will change what you believe and by changing that you can change your perspective on every aspect of your life. Most importantly your perspective about yourself. It can literally change your life.
Here is how you do this:
First start observing your thoughts. You will notice something you might find interesting. Whenever you think a positive thought like for example "wow this girl looks amazing I want to go talk to her" you instantly follow it up with a negative "but what can a man without passion like me offer to her". There is always a BUT in there.
Another example: "This is a beautiful car BUT I will never be able to buy something so expensive". The problem is if you think this thought often enough a new belief is formed about you not being able to earn a lot of money.
What you must do is to train yourself to stop at positive thoughts and throw BUT out of your vocabulary. You do this by focusing on how you feel. If you feel bad and you take a look at your thoughts you will find that often it's not the situation that's making you feel bad it's the thought you are thinking about that situation. Two people can look at same life situation and feel completely different about it because they think>believe>perceive it differently.
This is just my opinion and I can be wrong but it may help you as it helped me.
There is more to it than that but this comment is to long as it is.
Good advice dude!
Good advice dude!
Not doing it on her terms
Chase,
This is an essential article. In trying to figure out why women's attitude can change so quickly towards men, I often would blame an issue regarding the escalation window but sometimes that wouldn't explain things. I didn't think about these other factors that can cause a woman to go cold. Thank you for this, Chase.
I have a general question for your regarding the "grand scheme" of it all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the idea to court a woman but *not* on her terms? In other words, we want to be their lovers but not give them what they truly want, since women will doom a relationship if they had it exactly their way. Women have an idea of a fairy tail wedding with a Prince Charming husband, but if we go this route, we become providers who don't sexually arouse them but provide security instead. And this makes us into nonsexual men who the woman ultimately will control in the relationship and eventually resent. It's not that women are bad people, it's just that they do not realize, for the most part, things will go down this road. But doing things on her terms is handing her the keys to a car that she will inevitably crash. That's how I see this.
I know that's very general and vague, but am I grasping this correctly?
I'd love to hear your input, Chase.
Cheers,
Evan
Oh and...
Oh, and I almost forgot... Ever thought about doing an article about what your car says about you? And what to get for a vehicle that still gives off a sexy vibe without breaking the bank?
I live in a city where I drive and I've always been interested in womens' perceptions of guys when they see what men drive. I'm not rich so I think it's interesting to choose a car that gives off a certain persona, rather than just pouring money into an expensive luxury car. I would love to see an article about this!
Evan
Re: Not doing it on her terms
Evan-
Exactly – you are courting her, but on your terms.
You theoretically COULD give a woman the fairytale Disney princess romance and make it work. But it would have to be what YOU wanted, and you would need to stay congruent with it, and maintain it after (i.e., no illusions about what marriage is like after the wedding – you honestly maintain that exuberance about her even years after the gala wedding event).
The other alternative is that forces conspire against you to make you undergo a more “romantic” courtship. e.g., you meet this amazing woman, then are drafted off to war. So, you write her letters, and she reads them, and writes back, and over time you build this bond just from your words. Women fantasize about this stuff, but it isn’t likely to happen naturally in our day and age, nor is it a wise or efficient way to get women if you aren’t otherwise forced into it.
Most men aren’t sitting around dreaming about 6-figure wedding ceremonies, nor long, drawn-out, romantic courtships, nor are they being forced into these by the circumstances, so usually if these things happen it’s because the guy is weak and does it out of fear of not pleasing the woman if he does otherwise.
A woman wants a man who does what he wants. She wants the king, not the slave. And the primary way she gauges whether the man is a king or a slave is how he goes about pursuing her. Does he do it in a kingly way, or in a slavish one? Slaves go to the friend zone, kings to the bed zone.
Also, it’s fine to assume some of the provider role in a long-term relationship (i.e., more than 6 or 9 months), and usually even necessary. Remember that the ideal man is everything the girl wants, rather than just a part of what the girl wants: What Women Want. The catch is not going all-in on the provider slant and mistaking the perfect provider for the perfect partner – the perfect partner is friend, lover, and provider in one, not Super Provider, which is what a lot of guys try to be.
Re: cars/personas, yeah, it’d be interesting. I can only speak to my own personal experience from what I’ve seen of car owners and/or women’s reactions to them, so I wouldn’t try to do a full article on it, but…
Audi: ambitious, very stuck up, not that successful yet
BMW: successful, relaxed-yet-dominant
Chrysler: middle class
Ford: conservative, lower class or middle class
Honda: young, not a lot of money
Jaguar: probably an old lady
Lexus: successful (not as much as BMW though), relaxed
Mercedes: successful, older, slightly stuck up
Porsche: mid-life crisis
Toyota: older than Honda owner, a bit more money
Though, I haven’t been around cars or done much driving the past half decade, and these things tend to shift as car companies target different demographics in their advertisements, market new kinds of vehicles, and get different press, so my impressions may well be a little dated ;)
Chase
Thanks for this, Chase!
I was off on vacation and came back to your reply just now. Thanks so much clearing things up on the "grand scheme."
You made a good point about being *everything* she wants. I was thinking in a single dimension, assuming the lover is all you should be. I didn't realize that being her friend is a big part of what you need to be to her. When opening myself to being her friend, perhaps being warm, open, and nonjudgmental is a big part of this because there's some overlap with the lover role in these characteristics. And yeah, a bit of provider role is essential if you're in it for the long haul.
Great take on the cars! The Jaguar bit gave me a chuckle :)
Cheers and thanks!
Evan
Chase back in the groove?
Wow Chase, you're back writing articles.. And replying to many messages!
That's amazing, your articles and replies always have that level of depth that can rarely find from anyone else or anywhere else.
And you can also learn so much from your replies here that it almost bothers me when you reply so much because I'm like "shit, still so much to read now, but if I don't... I lose out" :D
Confession and then weirdness
Well,Chase.Nice article.
I want to tell you about a recent event with a girl.
I am Asian,going to college.Now ,I was attracted to a senior girl.She is quite friendly and attractive.
Now,one day I was talking with her about one of her projects she was doing(she is topper of her class)....as I am genuinely interested in doing one under the professor.The conversation ended quite well.I had taken her number earlier...But that cannot be considered as a "result"
because she is a very active senior and needs to keep contact with juniors.
Now,to build some rapport,I asked her to meet me during the break .She said 'ok'.Tragic thing is,she came with a gang of friends,so obviously I had nothing to do.
I concluded that she is not interested.So I decided to move on,meet new girls....
Later that day,we were texting and this topic came up.
I learned that ,she THOUGHT that I asked her out to talk about projects!!!!When I denied that,she wanted to know the real reason . I told her.
Now,I know that telling it on text is not right.But she persisted on it telling me that her friends make fun of her...as she talks with a junior alone and blah,blah.
Now,recently whenever we cross paths,she avoids eye contact and its like she does that purposefully.
So Chase,what is the meaning of this??
Is she shy/nervous?
or
Does she find me weird?
What should I do now?I want to be in good terms with her,because she is very helpful.
Thanks :)
She went from a 10 to a 5 in interest!
Long story short, the girl I've been seeing pursued ME! Works in the same building and came to see me every day leading up to me making a date. All went well, got the kiss; she was HOT for me. Then, I made a bad judgement call and accepted her invite to club with her,and her friends. She was drunk, and I ended up talking to her,friends more,than her. A guy she talked to was a bouncer and she wouldn't stop blabbing about,him being an ass; it was just bad. After that night; I knew auto reject was impending, as at work, She always,showed her classy side. Following that day; she cancelled 2 dates, one of which SHE suggested after flaking on the one I set up. CHASE! I know I'm going to see her again. Hoe do I go about this? It's waiting game time and IDK if it's a done deal or not. Just curious what you think the odds are we could pick up where we left off. Thanks!
Balancing Act
It's all about finding the middle road, isn't it Chase? That sweet spot. You move too far off the "fast" zone and you're "off"; you stray too far off the "slow" and you're off again.
The more one goes through life, the more one realizes that this social calibration skill is probably the second or third most important thing a man has to learn in his life. Which is fascinating seeing how underdiscussed and undertaught it is given it's importance.
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