Mindsets

The other day a reader commented the following on the article about respect in a relationship:

“What I’ve realized is my problem has never been being a closer. Once in a position to close I close. I escalate. Period. It’s fun, it’s sexy, it’s adrenaline inducing! But until a woman starts showing signs of submitting to me or hinting that she likes me, I feel afraid. I feel like I might lose her if I do something stupid to make her upset. I feel like I can't communicate any of this fear to the woman because she will lose attraction for me. And so, it's a catch 22 because I know if I don't make a confident move, she won't do it first, and her attraction will eventually fade, yet if I make a move and she doesn't go for it (rejects me) I immediately will feel as if I like her more than she likes me. And I HATE with a PASSION for a woman to find out that I liked her more than she likes me. My logical mind says I shouldn't care and that I should just laugh it off and say "whatever", but my emotional mind doesn't agree yet.

...

Have you ever closed girls that showed no visual signs at all of liking to be in your presence? What was your mindset in dealing with them? How'd you handle these girls? Was there any difference (whether subtle or more substantial) than girls who showed more signs of wanting to be seduced? How'd you change their minds if they were on the fence by persisting? And did you notice after the fact that initially aloof girls were glad you persisted and showed your emotions first?”

When you want to be liked... that's a curious thing.

In some ways, wanting to be liked is good and necessary to life as a human being:

• It stops you from being a social retard
• It prevents you from creating lots of enemies
• It makes you a more appealing person people will do more to help

But, unchecked, a need to be liked can often be a very destructive thing.

Unchecked, it leads to hesitation, over-deliberation, and, very often, inaction.

It's not even about making your self-esteem dependent on other people or suffering from far too much anxiety. Those are what most advice dispensers hoist up as the reasons to not care too much about being liked... but they're mere child's play compared to the real reasons this mess you up.

Because if you spent too much time trying to be well-liked, you will miss out on the all best things life has to offer you.

In the article on sticking points, a commenter asks:

“Hey Chase, how would you go about framing the "I am the Prize" frame? Or would you think of this as more of a devoped mindset?”

"I am the prize."

Brings back memories.

The first thing I ever read about pickup or seduction back in November 2005 introduced me to the phrase. I was searching on the Internet for anything I could find to help me iron out some of the kinks I was finding with these girls I was meeting in bars and nightclubs.

Most of the advice I came across was pure nonsense. But then I found this one guy.

I read one of his articles. It was on a silly-sounding website called "Dr. Dating" or something of the sort.

But this article made sense. More than that... it gave me ideas I hadn't even thought of yet, but that intuitively fit into my model of how attraction worked.

I read another article by the same guy.

Then another.

Wow... someone who ACTUALLY knew what he was TALKING ABOUT with girls!

At the bottom of each of his articles was a link to purchase his eBook for $49.95. And after reading the third article, I was convinced - at last, I had found someone who knew things about women I did not (not yet, anyway). So, I bought the book.

And right there, in the introduction to this book that I felt confident was going to supercharge my learning process, was the message the author most wanted to convey: the mindset a man needed to succeed with women was this: I am the prize.

Quick post today. More of a reminder than anything.

Much (most?) of the time, most people trend toward black and white thinking on things. This extends to all manner of thinking:

• "This is good, this is bad."
• "This is my fault, that is his fault."
• "I am right about this and other people are wrong."
• "Other people are right about this and I am wrong."

The last two are what I want to talk about briefly today.

And I want to talk about them by way of sharing with you a Chinese parable I heard a bit back.

On the outcome independence article, Balla made the following (exasperated) comment:

“Chase, im letting you and myself down with my low success rate. Please help me find this missing piece to this puzzle and please understand why im going crazy.

Im going mad with these girls. What am I missing? What am I doing wrong? It doesn't matter if the girls are cold approach girls or social circle girls. Nothing is popping off. I can get all the numbers I can care for but they dont mean shit if I cant sleep with these girls. I read the article that you wrote, "The 10 ways to make a girl take you seriously". I read your stuff religiously and apply it all.

Im not even joking, everything you say to do I do. From moving girls, text and call only for dates, be sexy, be calm, be smooth. I read the serious article over and over again and apply all of the steps. I am really going mad right now, I never felt this bad before in my life. Im being 100% honest chase, I use all your stuff, but im still not sleeping with these girls. Im just getting phone numbers and attention, I dont even get damn dates. Im starting to get cold and bitter and getting ready to treat these girls like shit. Please Chase tell me what im doing wrong? Is it just that im not meant to get many girls to sleep with me? Is it that Luck is against me? I really dont know what to do, im trying not to vent but im frustrated beyond belief and enough is enough. I have an identity crisis also, after reading that comment you left for a reader about it and it makes me very angry that im all these good qualities but im not getting any action. People believe I sleep with alot of girls and it drives me crazy that im not. I even believe I should sleep with alot of girls but its not happening. Its been a year since I found this site and I havent bedded one girl I didnt know yet. Sorry for the long vent but I seriously don't know what im doing wrong. I still believe everything you write is true and it works, I just have no idea what I am doing wrong. Thank you Chase for everything.”

I can commiserate. In early 2006, when I had just started actively going out and approaching new women, I was frequently leaving similar notes on the message boards I participated in then. I was trying everything I knew to try... and it seemed like nothing was working.

This is something called "plateauing" - where your progress stalls and you hit a level plain where things just don't seem to be getting any better.

Plateaus are the result of running into sticking points.

What's a sticking point? It's something that no matter what you do or try, you just can't seem to get around it.

Today I want to talk about what your options are for when you hit these frustrating snags, and what you need to do to break free of their tangles and get yourself making progress with women - or with anything else - once more.

A guy walks up to a girl.

He starts a conversation. She's from out of town.

They exchange pleasantries, chat a little bit, have a bit of back and forth.

He's not feeling it though; she isn't really into him, and he can tell.

She invites him to swing by her town sometime. He knows this is a polite brushoff.

He smiles, tells her he appreciates it, says he's going to do a little more circulating, gives her a wink, and leaves.

That guy's cool... isn't he?

Actually, the correct way of describing him would be "outcome independent."

This isn't the comprehensive "how to be cool" post that some folks have asked me to write... that one will require a large block of uninterrupted time for me to sit down and put together. But I do want to talk about one of the elements of being cool: that thing known as outcome independence.

I recently had dinner with a group of friends. Among this group was a young Mormon couple, the male of whom was a former missionary. He was one of those cool religious guys you meet, with a clear sense of purpose, and a fire behind his eyes that told you he knew who he was and what he stood for and what he was meant to do in this world. We had some good conversation about life, travel, and business.

After we parted ways from them, the girl I was with asked me how people can find purpose in religion. "Well," I said, "for him, from his point of view and what he believes, he knows with absolute confidence and certainty that if he spreads the Word of God and brings more people to the faith, and if he leads a good life and does what he's supposed to and avoids temptation and sin, when all's said and done and his time on this planet is past, he'll ascend to heaven and he'll be buddies with God and will be at peace for the rest of eternity."

My girl looked at me quizzically. "How can anybody believe that?" she asked, genuinely surprised.

"Because some people told them about it, and they thought it sounded reasonable, so they believed it," I replied.

"That's not a good reason!" she said.

"Well, let me ask you something," I said. "You believe in evolution, right? That people come from monkeys, which come from rats, which come from fish... all that?"

"Yes," she said.

"Okay," I continued. "Have you studied evolution in a laboratory environment yourself and seen the evidence up close to make sure it's real?"

"No," she said.

"Well," I said, "have you ever actually seen evolution happen?"

She paused a moment, realizing where I was going with this. "No," she said.

"Then how do you know evolution actually happens?" I asked. She didn't answer. "It's because people told you it does, and it sounded reasonable to you, and you believed it... isn't it?"

Somewhat less polished article than usual today... my computer's in the shop, so I'm having to put things together on a rather dated machine instead of my usual one.

A reader wrote in to give me a tongue lashing for being insecure, brainwashing men, and leading people astray - away from loving themselves, their soul mates, and God. Here's what he had to say:

“Hey Chase,

So I used to be on this site until I realized a few things. Firstly, you're a very insecure man who is brainwashing men into learning a 'skill' which they should not be learning. I believe there is a God-given person for anyone, and regardless of whether or not you think that is 'feel good nonsense' is up to you. A girl left you and because of that you felt like you needed to change. Ever think that maybe she just wasn't right for you? Ever think that you could find a girl who likes you for who you are, but you just got to be patient? Ever think that it's okay to be yourself and to want to be efficient and get things done fast only if you want to? Your website is based on complex logic-based ideological nonsense that appeals to vulnerable young and old men who have typically been through hard times with women and are looking for a solution. Sure you can learn how to make money, get the best body, etc.; we live in a progress-based society. On the other hand, when you are trying to teach people a skill, which is not yours or anyone else's right to teach, then that's crossing the line. Deep down, you know it's wrong, and despite the fact that it works (I can vouch for that), it's morally wrong. You don't need to sleep with women for them to stick around. Most of them will stick around, and you're right about that, but really think about what's the point of doing that. If a girl is meant for YOU then she will like YOU for the nerdy, efficient, intelligent, socially awkward person that you naturally are. SIMPLE. Chase, please give your head a shake, bro. I know what you're saying is true and works, I know if you get the girl to pay it works, I know chase frames work, etc. Please just take a moment and think 'Why would I want a girl who doesn't like me for who I am?' Don't fight your core self, try to change your voice, and who you are. Do it if you want, but the girl you end up with will like you for you. Marriage may not be a big deal to you, but it is a God-given way for 2 people who love each other to demonstrate that; you're just taking a completely logic-based approach, which is one that society tries to conform us into due to its progress-based nature, but if you know what's good for you, you'll take a moment and seriously rethink what you are doing, and get your insecurities sorted out, because you have some serious work to do my friend :).

All the best,
Former member”

I have a pretty good idea who this individual is, because he routinely comes on here leaving similar comments. If it's the person I think, he's a guy who was very religious, then decided he was going to learn how to be good with girls, then, before he could actually get any experience with women, decided that being good with girls was morally reprehensible and that he should go back to being very religious again. I've nothing against religious people personally, but flip-flopping is just annoying.

If there's a God, He's probably pretty annoyed with it too. God and I are both annoyed.

I'd take the time to respond point-by-point here - except I've already done that, in this article from two years ago: "Just Be Yourself: The Worst Dating Advice Known to Man." If you're curious about my response to the line of reasoning espoused in the above comment, just read that article - I wrote it specifically so I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself every time somebody decides to challenge why anyone needs to bother with self-improvement, dating advice, treating yourself as your own greatest project and investment, etc.

And the morality issue - "You know it's wrong to teach men about women!" - has been previously addressed here: "Is Seduction Wrong?"

(also worth adding, for clarity's sake - I started improving myself with women when I had almost zero prior success with women and was alone and friendless, not because a girl "had left me," although this does seem to be a common origin story for men in the dating advice niche; and I score 35% on OkCupid's "How Insecure Are You, Really... Test," which you can draw your own conclusions about)

Anyway, what I'm actually primarily interested in discussing here is the emotional reaction - why do people get upset and feel like they need to go on a crusade to silence you when they know you don't think as they do?

Why is it about other people's ideas that make them so... frightening? I mean, they're just ideas... right?